Tuesday, December 06, 2005

How Did I Fall Into Poverty to Begin With?

OK, here's Part Deux: Ad Nauseum. What was the tool which I used to pry myself out of poverty? Ultimately, it was education.

I would quickly caution you, though, that education is achievable for anyone and so ultimately no one has an excuse! And if a child (or that child's parents) rejects education, then they are rejecting their future as well. Education is free for all and every child has a choice: are you going to take advantage of that free education, or are you going to act the fool?

My parents demanded that I use my mind, even if I did nothing else. They exposed me to literature and the best minds that ever were. They encouraged me to take my education seriously, and I did. But let me emphasize again: even without parents who care, a child can make the right choices. Of course it is very important for them to have some adult they can discuss them with, which is where teachers come in (such as the excellent ones that I interract with in BlogLand.)

When I got married at 18, my parents begged me to finish out my college because you never know if something might happen. If my husband died unexpectedly, I would need more than life insurance to make it. So, I went to college. I need to add right here that there are many successful people that didn't go to college but made it in life because they at least finished high school. To not finish either is to betray yourself. I cannot say this enough.

My ex and I both went through and finished college together. We worked when we could to support ourselves and also took student loans. We worked a short time after, got lucky enough to get pregnant, and I retired. I was a stay-at-home mom for a couple years. Until he slapped me with the divorce.

Our marriage wasn't working (there is no doubt there) so his judgement was sound up to that point. But he was also a Christian fundamentalist (as was I at the time) and his only hope of continuing to be accepted by the fundamentalist community would be to paint me as a Jezebel. And I found out later that he'd been having an affair with my best friend. Remarriage is a tough sell in the fundie community unless you can paint your ex as being an adulteress or even worse (if possible). And, if you recall, I was too proud to fight the allegations.

So when he filed for divorce, he had been very clever to cut off all my funds. He had closed all the credit cards and the bank account. It was war. And I had no weapons. So, he won... and got everything he wanted.

But he wasn't content with all of that. He desperately wished to destroy me. A dead ex-wife is even easier to explain away. So, he did everything he could to drive me to suicide. Yes, I am certain that this was his underlying motive in all his actions. Although it sounds extreme, you must realize that his campaign was extreme: When you batter someone psychologically and monetarily, eventually they can become so punch-drunk that they look for the easiest way out.

To go into all his schemes and all the viciousness is to dwell where we don't need to dwell. And I am no saint. There were times I struck back or lashed out. But overall, I was poor, struggling to make ends meet, and juggling my demands and the demands of the court system. I was relatively powerless. And I worked where there was no education needed, at first... but it helped. You see, when you're out of the workforce for a number of years, you must start at the bottom again.

So, instead of stewing about it all, I decided to begin to work positively toward my goals. I began to re-open my connections with the few people that I knew who weren't in the fundie community. They were suprisingly supportive and encouraging. I used those connections to get increasingly better jobs, and made every person who referred me proud that they had done so.

I worked hard, but was friendly and sociable. Whenever I took a job as a secretary, I was promoted within 3 months. When I left a job it was only for a job with better pay, or because I had discovered something that was wrong and was being asked to help cover it up (once I found that my employer was keeping 2 books - one to give to the IRS, and the real one).

My jobs improved steadily, and so did my life. I met the Other Half 6 years ago and he has been a great support. And, my ex is actually afraid of him (the Other Half is a blackbelt with steely eyes).

But my life could not have improved, and I never would have attracted the Other Half, if I had either killed myself or buried myself in too many "Why Me"s.

Disasters always happen. And sometimes people wish you evil. And there will always be ups and downs. But if people make the most out of whatever education they can get, and if they continue to self-educate and follow the rules in my last post, then they will be successful too.

It's that simple.


Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

A thought, there seems to be an obsession with 'making it good', it seems to be the American obsession because it ties in with the old idea that the US is the land where anyone can make it with a bit of hard work and some guts.

Stories like yours are attractive because people can beleive they're in the same country as their grandparents.

The fact that the gap between rich and poor is growing and that you have millions of people living below the poverty line is swept away under a rug of self-help rhetoric and TV chat shows.

No wonder Arnie is governer of California.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Daniel, ahhh, no you don't. Don't lump me in with others, or stereotype me, please. I haven't done it to you.

This isn't an Anthony Robbins course, this isn't a bunch of rhetoric, either. Be careful how you generalize in order to get across your particular agenda. Because it isn't correct.

There is no doubt there's rhetoric. But the truth is, America still does give the same opportunities than it did. More, in fact. If you lived here, perhaps you'd see it.

Yes, the gap is growing. But it was predicted over 30 years ago that it would. The question is why? My answer is that it's for the reasons I've mentioned in these last two posts. People want the easy way out, and there isn't one.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Another thought: We live in a society where watching the rich live opulant lifestyles is a national obsession. We want more than we can have. But the truth is that even the poorest of us is living better than the middle class did in the early 1900s. What other nations can say that?

mal said...

ooooooo steely eyes? mmmmmmmm *G*

Saur♥Kraut said...

Mallory, *g* And looks like a cross between Mel Gibson and some-other-actor-in-a-soap-whose-name-I-don't-remember...

michelle said...

Saur, Can I speak for you a second?

Saurkraut did not say she went from poor to rich. She said she was able to get herself out of poverty by using her education, skills, positive attitude, and good old fashioned hard work. She never said the American dream would get you rich. Education and hard work will get you from being at the poverty level. I am not rich, I live a bit better than pay check to pay check, but not by much. I could easily be better off, but I have chosen not too. I have a child in kindergarten and I have a work schedule that allows me to be flexible and involved. This is a choice. That is what this is all about, making a choice for yourself.

The going get tough, yes, but the tough get going!

I don't blog as well as you, but this is my 2 cents.

michelle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fred said...

Very inspiring, Saur. Do you mind if I use this in some form to emphasize to some of my students how important it is to get an education and make the right choices?

Saur♥Kraut said...

Fred, of course! I'd be happy to help in any way. I'll email you w/ my addy if you have any further questions.

Michelle, thank you. Actually, you summed it up very well.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Fred, ooops. I don't see your email addy anywhere. But feel free to ask questions!

Anonymous said...

Yoda says: Trouble I sense in the Farce. Anger I sense. Or perhaps jealous are you DHG? Since an actor you claim to be, acting is this now? Blinding my thoughts and reasoning is the Dork side....

Kathleen said...

Daniel said . . ."The fact that the gap between rich and poor is growing and that you have millions of people living below the poverty line is swept away under a rug of self-help rhetoric and TV chat shows."

Daniel, where is your data. The fact is that the standard of living in America, if you consider decent housing, medical care, educational opportunities and asset ownership is far better than it has ever been for the poor! Our country is not without its own welfare (entitlement) programs. In fact, the poor in this country have the opportunity to receive better medical care than many, many middle class Americans who no longer receive medical insurance as a benefit of employment. In the early 1900's poor Americans had little help from the government and lived in conditions that we cannot fathom today. Then, "the gap" between the rich and poor was huge. Every day I interact with low-income / no-income Americans who turn down the big screen TV and shoo away their "live in" boyfriend when I arrive to provide my services. My question is, do you want to see the truth? If you want to see the real picture then put down your script, hit the streets and learn. If I sound irritated with you, I am. It is easy to selectively pick your sources and experts from an armchair. An entirely other thing to really seek the truth. In the last forty years we have birthed an new sub-culture of individuals who will never again consider working for their own survival. If we are guilty of anything, we are guilty of removing the most basic of human expectations . . . to personally provide the necessities of life to assure your own survival. The real cost is incalculable.

Finally, is the amount of CASH greater today between the rich and the poor? Possibly.

Eddo said...

Go Saur! You are a testament to anyone who has been kicked and kicked when they were down, but still managed to work your way to the top. Hard work combined with education and persistence always pays off.

uncle joe said...

This is getting good. I just turned off my tv and now I wait with basted breath. ummm bated breath. baited breath?

Lee Ann said...

I absolutely agree with you. I went through a very similar situation as you. I have worked hard in my life to get here, in spite of the obstacles. Education is very important, I am glad I had that to fall back on.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Lee Ann, well, you only live in Birmingham. Maybe you need to come down here for a Florida vacation! I think we should have a couple pina coladas, kick back and watch the sunset, and share our battle stories. ;o)

Uncle Joe, *LOL* Only baited if it smells like fish.

Eddo, thanks, hon. I knew you'd agree.

Kathleen, excellent points. I think it's odd how the rest of the world views us in such a warped light. Now, Daniel did spend a brief time in San Francisco, but that is hardly representative of America either... and to actually understand America perhaps you need to live here for a while and really immerse yourself in it. I suppose the warped views that others receive are due to the press? I thought we were sending out a truthful image recently, but perhaps we haven't been. I guess we all have the tendency to focus on the bad news, not the good.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...


I didn't lump you in with anyone, it was a thought based on your post and not a reference to you, I have no agenda; just reaction. The US does give opportunities to the right kind of people (not illegal immigrants however...) but so do many other nations. As for the predicted gap, you seem to put it down to people being lazy while I put it down to greed at the top of the feeding chain. Also a capitalist culture of spend and spend doesn't help when people's wages are a burden on profit. As for comparison to 1900s that carries no meaning becasue people in 1900 could say we live better than 1800.

Michelle: sometimes you can get an education and work hard and still be flat out on your ass. Life has no formulas or plans, that is the joy of it.

Anon: you make me laugh so hard I nearly forgot how many Iraqi children are dead.

Kathleen: please see how I felt about Saur using 1900's as an example, if things don't get better with time then you really need regime change. As for facts, here you go:

12.7% of US population live in poverty, that's 37 million people with 13 million of them kids. As for the gap: the top 1% earn 40% of US wealth, roughly speaking the top end make 419 more than the bottom end (whose wages have dropped in real term value since 1979 and continue to do so; ie: what you get for your dollar). All info avaliable of the US census website.


Jamie Dawn said...

Instead of wallowing around, you really did the best you could with what you had. You used for skills wisely, and you deserve your rewards.
I don't think education can be over-emphasized. It is vitally important.

Kathleen said...

Daniel said . . . "As for facts, here you go:"

I said, "The fact is that the standard of living in America, if you consider decent housing, medical care, educational opportunities and asset ownership is far better than it has ever been for the poor!"

I said, IF YOU CONSIDER . . .

Decent Housing: We the people provide low income families housing and shelter through many federal, state and local programs. Most are federal and administered under the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Under these programs, HUD inspects all assisted housing to assure 'housing quality standards'. While there are many, many programs, the three largest are Public Housing, Section 8 Voucher and Indian Housing. Americans provide safe, decent and affordable to low income families virtually everywhere in the country. Millions and millions of families and individuals receive this assistance. The first housing legislation for the poor was passed by Congress in 1932. There is more, but I think you get the point.

Free education. As in many countries, we provide free public education to all children through the twelth grade (graduation from high school). Beyond that, federal, state and local governments provide incentives to students who come from low income families as well as schools who serve them. This includes, but is not limited to scholarships to our finest universities. I am not even talking about the Private Sector that has proven outstanding contributors to the same causes.

Medical Care: If you lived in America, you would be familiar with the programs like Medicaid and Medicare. These are two MAJOR programs designed to provide medical care to low income families and the elderly. Most states also have programs usually to assure children are receiving good medical and dental care. We have an excellent one in Florida. There are regulations that require participants meet the low income criteria. Which brings to mind the new problem we are facing where the middle income family is not receiving adequate healthcare. A whole other book!

The statistics you quoted are true, but are derived from reported earned income. My post referred to basics for living . . . shelter, medical and education. I should have mentioned food. We also have a program that provides what we call Food Stamps to low-income individuals and families. I could go on, but . . .

Perfect, no. Substantial, yes. Are we taking care of each and everyones wants? Absolutely not! And, we shouldn't.

In America, poor families are being given down payment money and 0 interest loans for home ownership. Yes, new homes for the poor to own. How many middle and upper middle class families own their own home in the UK? Not a slap at your country, just trying to gain some perspective.

Finally, forget about 1900, 1930, 1920, or 1960. Poor families in America live better than most people on earth. Not bragging. Not making a judgment. Just stating the facts!!!!!

FTS said...

What an excelent story of how one can "pull themselves up by the bootstraps." It's all about choices, and you chose to not let anyone else have control over you. If only you knew how many people I've tried to get this idea across to in the last year.

Thsi should be required reading for so many who are going through this. Instead of choosing to be a victim, they can choose to be a survivor.

Ellen said...

Daniel- I think you have missed the point entirely. Saurkraut has said that she worked hard to dig herself out of the poverty level... therefore not becoming a burden on the welfare system, or feel like she had reason to give up because life threw her down. We are fortunate in our country to have that type of system in place for those willing to take advantage of it. She has character because she became a survivor and by-passed the overwhelming and ever-friendly (to the lazy asses out there) system of entitlement. She didn't say she got rich, just that she felt the need to become a decent useful citizen and not a moocher of our welfare system. To her, education was key for the plan to be implemented and goal achieved.

I never had the opportunity to go to college myself, and learned everything in the "school of hard knocks". I worked my way up the ladder the old-fashioned way, and today I am the proud owner of my own business. I did the "sacrificing of dinner" routine so that my child could eat a decent meal, and worked two jobs many times so that I wouldn't have to go to the state and beg for assistance. Honest, decent hard work was my ticket... not to say that there aren't others who have done the same, but have not been as fortunate as me.
I am still considered "middle class".... you know, the class that pays for the rich and poor.
I also refused to become a moocher of our system, and too damn proud to ask for financial assistance.

As for the line: "The US does give opportunities to the right kind of people (not illegal immigrants, however)"... I say bull! We have more illegal immigrants in our country than we can bear to take care of. Why do you think they are always crossing the line to get here? It's not because they have a better life in their own country. I have asked them, and they have told me.

Maybe life has no plans or formulas for you, but some of us have goals, and are proud enough of them to achieve them.

Yes, America has a lot of problems,
and many things to fix... maybe we should learn to quit helping countries in desperate need of our
assistance so that we can take care of our own. In that case you'd be goosestepping your way around the UK, as it was with our help that your country was pulled out of WWII. But we are not like that. The US has always come to the rescue of the poor and unfortunate... even in our own country. The reports you read or news you see is only a fraction of what's really happening here. The ones who abuse our system, are the same people who would abuse any system in any country.

Saurkraut- Mind if I come join you and Lee Ann for that FLA vacation and pina coladas?

Tan Lucy Pez said...

Everyone can do something more than what they do do with their lives. That is true. An education is key to getting a break in life. Also true.

But some have more brains, and more health than others.

The poor will always be with us. I don't regard them as failures.

AP3 said...

Good post, Saurkraut. {{{Saurkraut}}} Sorry your ex was such a jerk.

TLP is right -- some people don't have the brains to do much with school. Other people have brains and education, and essentially choose poverty.

Saur♥Kraut said...

TLP is correct. Not all the poor are failures, and we will always have the poor. I do think it's up to us, as a society, to understand the difference between those who are trying but failing, and those who are failing to try.

Ellen, come along for the ride! It sounds like you belong in the club! It would be a pleasure to meet you, seriously. And as for education, most of my close friends don't have anything past a highschool degree. You see, it's the moxy that makes them special.

FTS, funny how hard it is to get that across, particularly to the people in your industry. It's often struck me as odd that male hairdressers and colorists take it seriously as a profession and females take it as supplemental income only (this is usually, not always). Even when they say they want more, they don't(?) I've seen it in other professions but for some reason it's the rule in the hair industry.

Jamie Dawn, thank you. I agree heartily, and keep drilling it into my kids.

Kathleen, you've handled this issue well. Thank you.

Daniel, thanks for clarifying! We remain friends, of course, and will have to agree to disagree. As TLP said, the poor will always be with us and I admit that it's not always someone's fault if they're poor. However, I do think that in the majority of cases, people could fare better if they tried a little harder.

Saur♥Kraut said...

{{{AP3}}}, thanks, honey. Yeah, I agree with TLP too.

Senor Caiman said...


Excellent posts. The scary thing for me is that you sound like my Mom.

Live, Love, Laugh said...

WOW that was an inspirational post, although I felt like givin your ex a black eye.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Mr. Gator, *LOL* Now don't forget to wear clean underwear today, honey.

Live, Love, Laugh, thank you, sweetie. Your site is inspirational.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

*deep breath*

Pulling up by your boot straps turns my freaking stomuch, you can't play hardball with poverty. Tell that to 37 million people who, if we followed your rules, would all be OK if they followed Saur's guide for getting out of poverty. In fact, what about all those pesky Africans leaching aid for the US, give them Saur's advice and they'll be sweet, right?

The point I've been constantly making and everyone seems to be getting confused about is that it's not as simple as Saur is painting it (and I'm very glad she got herself all good, that's not my point), cuz if it was poverty would be history. We live in a system that demands poverty as a criteria for the rest of us to succeed. There has always got to be some 'sucker' at the bottom of the pile, 37 million of them in the US. They are not all lazy, good for nothing people, they are a by product of a system we buy into.

Kathleen: You move the goalposts to avoid my facts. That's cheating. Tell your list of things to the 37 million and the gorwing gap between rich and poor you asked me to prove and I did. As for your question, 64% of UK population own there own homes.

Ellen: I didn't miss the point, I have an issue with the fundemental basics of the assumption that 'not becoming a burden on the welfare system' is a good thing. The language of that makes me ill, like everyone on welfare is somehow lazy. My point is what worked for Saur won't work for everyone and it's not because they are lazy. I know there's a lot of fat Americans (30% obese and 34% overweight and the UK is catching you up!) but 37 million of you can't be that lazy. What I can't forgive you for though (and this gets me very mad) is that you made the classic American-getting pissed-with-the-uppity Brit mistake, you mentioned 'goosestepping' as if we owe you our freedom from Nazi Germany. HA HA HA! Oh dear...Hey! Roosevelt had to let Pearl Harbour happen because the US people didn't want to get involved in fighting facism, just like they want to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan leaving both countries in tatters. Tricked into war again huh?

Ted said...

When you step out in faith and use the talent and work ethic you have displayed good things happen. You can't feel guilty for unmerrited favor and you can't cry for everybody else. Applying good principles just works. All the stats and arguments may make some feel important but the bottom line will always be the just by faith shall live.

Kathleen said...

Daniel said . . . "Kathleen: You move the goalposts to avoid my facts. That's cheating. Tell your list of things to the 37 million and the gorwing gap between rich and poor you asked me to prove and I did."

You don't get a pass after calling me a cheat. Read the post again. It will be easier to understand if you leave your prejudice on the table next to you for the minute it takes.

You know what I love about Americans, Daniel? We aren't partial to continually bashing other countries and peoples for recreation. I have been following your comments and insults to Americans in "blogland" and your blog for many months. In all that time I have yet to see an American administer a well-earned tongue lashing about your country and your representation of it. And, you know what; I am not going to take the bait either. Suffice it to say, you have a serious lack of common civility and an enormous reserve of bad manners. Further, while I am clear that your language skills are generally excellent, you sadly find it impossible not to revert to your adolescent habit of expressing anger and disgust with one and two syllable expletives. I am going to laughingly call it "Daniel's Shock and Awe."

You said . . . "What I can't forgive you for though (and this gets me very mad) is that you made the classic American-getting pissed-with-the-uppity Brit mistake, you mentioned 'goosestepping' as if we owe you our freedom from Nazi Germany." Very dramatic. Contrary to your perception, Americans don't give that a second thought. We don't think you (Brits) owe us a thing. As for us making the "classic American getting pissed-with-the-uppity Brit" remark, you have to be kidding! That is the first time I have heard that phrase. We have not and never will consider you superior. About Americans being fat . . . and????? And, Roosevelt as our president will always be admired by Americans. For the American generation that ran to the enlistment offices to defend this country and the world against Japanese and German imperialism, my gratitude and my countrymen’s gratitude will suffice.

Now, when you come to America this month, enjoy yourself. I live in a state where we have a continuous flow of foreign tourists. I am happy to say that Americans get high marks for our hospitality. So Daniel, let me bid you an early welcome to America.

Ellen said...

Daniel- Terribly sorry you feel that way.... I was not implying that I am a pissed off American, and you owe the US your freedom. Far from it, in fact.
It was an analogy (and only an analogy) that I thought you might understand seeing that your country and mine have some commonalities.
It seems that I've struck a nerve, and that clearly was not my intention. I only wanted you to see that if we chose to isoloate ourselves from the worlds problems, we would have the funds available to take care of the needy in our own country. Yes, I agree with you, 37 million is a staggering number of people... and no, not all are just lazy asses. There are quite a few (35 million maybe) that know how to use the system to their benefit and cheat the truly needy out of what could be beneficial living standards.
It's just that I've run across too many that would just rather do nothing (even though they are skilled and healthy) than to put some real effort into becoming a productive person. They wear a badge of entitlement like a pair of shoes, and feel that the government needs to take care of them. How do I know this? Well, I used to know a person that collected monies from her state, as well as 3 other states in order to support herself, boyfriends and multiple children. It was easy, as all she had to do was declare residency in each of the states. Meanwhile, 28% of my yearly income is whisked away from me to support their greedy habits.

No question that some are a by-product of the system that we buy into... but doesn't that occur in all countries? There will always be the poor and unfortunate ones who will always be in need of some kind of assistance; all countries share that problem. In America, we have choices in front of us, that most third world countries lack. A lot of that is due to the tyrannical leaders that elect themselves into office and rob the people of their due... so to apply Saurkrauts theory to them can only become a non-issue until their governments are rid of vermin who steal everything for themselves.
Meanwhile, we pump in millions of dollars into said countries in the name of aid, which never quite gets to the people who truly need it in the first place.

We are not asking for repayment in most instances, nor do we feel that anyone truly owes us. However, one country that we helped to build up after WWII was France, which thanked us by de-valuing our dollar. I guess we only ask for respect, which is in such short commodity these days.

When I hear stories of people who kicked and scratched their way out of our tired and overused system, I tend to believe that it is possible for a little extra effort on the lazy asses part. Trust me, they are many lazy asses out there.

The Zombieslayer said...

Saurkraut - Heh. Looks like one of your fans has America envy. ;)

America rules. My former drummer went from the Fifth Ward of Houston (on and off murder capital of the U.S.) to The Woodlands (nicest suburb in Houston) in only a decade. Hard work + money smarts. Can't do that in 99% of the rest of the world.

Other friends who came from Oakland projects who now are swimming in money. Are they happy? Sure. Great to be around.

We went from the refineries to well off in seven years, but then again, we got lucky. Caught the boom before it busted.

You seem to be doing pretty well yourself, and that's awesome. I'm happy for you. You are one heck of a strong person to not only survive what you went through, but to thrive. You got bigger cajones than, well, I'll leave it at that. :)

You have good parents as well.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Katheen: I like the shock and awe thing, you may have been mocking but I dig it. The reference to WW2 was thanks to ellen mentioning it otherwise it would've remained buried. She peeved me. As for my blog and it's contents, it's never anti-American; anti-Bush yes but I also have posted on the need for an American empire right now so I can't be all that bad. Thanks for the welcome, I've been a regular visitor to the US, this is my eight time.

Ellen: the US doesn't need isolation to deal with it's problems (I thought you didn't have any? People are painting two pictures when it suits them) but intervention to make it the world's true empire.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Well, everyone's having a heyday in here and I think I'll let the melee continue without intervention... ;o)

Kathleen said...


Ellen said...

Kathleen- I agree, LOL!

Daniel- I am not in the habit of "peeving" people off, and feel bad that you see it that way.

America does have it's problems, which I did state, and we have many programs in place to divert or avoid total chaos (which kathleen stated), but that is not to say that there are not citizens of our country who like to take advantage of these programs (therein some of our problems occur).

The goal is not to make the US a true "world's empire", but rather to make the world free for democracy in all it's corners... to see societies flourish, industry boom, and people worship with the God of their choice. It seems that this is not possible in our time, as there are too many dictators who have different agendas, and don't buy into this theory.
You are right, isolation could never be the answer to our problems, as we all depend too much on each other for imports and exports.
So what is the answer? I don't really know, but will never give up hope that there are people out there who truly give a damn about themselves enough to make a difference, and educate themselves to a better life. My goodness, you hear stories about this all the time... they are not the ones who say "why me" but rather "I am going to make a concerted effort".
We have those opportunities in the US, unlike some other countries who rule by military standards alone. By the way, we did send in
a lot of aid to the African nations, which ended up in the hands of their rulers and military,
never making it to the people who were desperate and needy of supplies. Why did they do this? The answer is quite simple, in order to maintain order of your country, it becomes necessary to starve them into submission, using the military to strong arm the defenseless. At least we don't have those problems to deal with here... just a host of others who try to dupe the system with their sense of "entitlement" issues.

I hope that we can be friends... as I find you a very interesting person, very well read by your comments, and sassy! I extend my hand in frienship, and hope you do have a good visit in the States.

Saurkraut- Sorry I took up so much of your space. I am truly glad that I stopped by to read your blog (it rocks!) and will link you on mine. I always enjoy a good political thrashing of ideas; as that's what made this country so great... we can speak our minds and agree to disagree.

Liquidplastic said...

Saurkraut I am happy for your success ... and for any one who achieve their goal no matter the hardships. As it stand this post is very inspirational.

I also find Daniel to be on target in his analysis. We all have our opinion about what works based on who we are and where we was born. This issue is too diverse to be explained away in one Blog, but it good to see the dialogue.

I always enjoy reading your Blog ... I have respect for anyone who stand up for what they believe. I do it all the time, and it's not a popular stand. It is the encouragement of different opinions that make us unique, and build friendships. It is our basic communalities that bring about understanding, and enable us to co-exist in peace.

I am glad to see you encouraging healthy dialogue and accepting those who do not agree with you respectfully. It's one of the reason I have come to admire you. Thank you for the education ... one is never to old or young to learn.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Ellen, I take your hand and kiss it.