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Saturday, July 29, 2006

So Hezbollah Wants Peace?

Hezbollah is crying uncle. I am not surprised. It's like the neighborhood bully who finally is getting the snot beaten out of him by a kid that he always thought he could pick on. Funny how they didn't want peace until they're losing.

"You start it, *I* finish it," my parents always warned me. That seems to be Israel's attitude right now. I wonder what they'll do? Will they take the high road and let the bully up off the pavement, or will they finish teaching him the manners that he's needed to be taught all these years?

The world awaits with baited breath.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert Einstein

29 comments:

Gaurav Varma said...

It tok all of Israel's persistence in the face of worldwide condemnation for them to show the Hezbollah their place! Pity India doesnt do more of the same with the shit Pakistan has been throwing on them for years...

Christine said...

Great topic.

Nah, let the bully stay on the pavement and continue to kick the crap out of him.
He has terrorized the neighborhood far too long.
What concerns me is the bully walks the neighborhood cushioned on all sides by innocent
women and children. Must hurt or kill those layers of humanity before even catching a glimpse of the enemy.
That, my sweet friend, hurts my heart.

R2K said...

Lol some people always have an angle at the end.

Yeah I agree, but I feel Hezbollah is trying to gain PR points more than that they really need help right now. They know ending the war is the popular thing, so they want to gain support by seemingly suggesting peace. But rest assured, they cannot really reign in on the rockets, even if Israel stops. Even if they wanted to.

Mike said...

I admire Israel for not messing around with them.

Senor Caiman said...

Saur,

If I may paraphrase Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr..

"Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring — when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every nation, state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children — black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants, Hezbollahs and Catholics - will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Peace at last! Peace at last! Thank God Almighty, we are at Peace at last!"

Saur♥Kraut said...

Senor, as always, you remain a cipher. Are you saying that the Muslims must allow for freedom and stop oppressing others? Or are you saying "peace at any price"?

Mike, me 2.

Alex, I agree. It will be almost impossible for them to restrain themselves. They've painted Israel as Evil Incarnate for too long. They won't get a "buy in" from their followers.

Chris, I agree. It's very sad to see the innocents harmed.

Gaurav, It's true, Pakistan is a blight on India.

Senor Caiman said...

Saur,

Excellent question. After re-reading my post I see that I wasn't very clear.

Peace at any price.

Thanks.

Badoozie said...

that albert guy had some darn good things to say. i don't know anything about the hellzewhatsit thing, but i trust that you do, so i wait to hear your next post, and an update on this situation.

United We Lay said...

I'm not sure a cease fire is the answer anymore. I think we've gotten to the point where this has to play out. If it doesn't now, it will when one or more of these countries (Syria, Iran, Lebanon) has some kind of nuclear weapon. I think now is a better option. Negotiation in this area has failed for 60 years. The only way this ends is in war.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I wondered when you'd dive into the Middle East situation and I hoped you wouldn't peddle the same nonsense concerning Hezbollah that every other US blogger seems to but then you post that.

Some points: if there is a bully in the Middle East, that'll be Israel, their tactics of ethnic cleansing, expansionism, breaking international law and refusing to abide by UN security resolutions.

Hezbollah was founded to remove the illegal force of Israeli occupation and are a genuine democratically elected force for change in the region, please see the IRA for reference.

Israel de-stabalise the entire region with their aggressive policies and act of oppression of the Palestinian people, therefore energising the Middle East into a hot bed of conflict.

Objectively, Hezbollah are actually standing upto very well to the second largest military force in the world, its a phyric victory but one never the less.

Finally, the idea that the issues of the Middle East can be ended by war is as flawed as it is stupid, it would go along to peace if Israel retreated to the 1967 borders and removed all of their illegal settlements in the West Bank, I think you would find that things would get a hell of a lot better then.

Good to see so much ignorant Arab bashing going on...

mal said...

Sadly Hesbollah turned around and got truculent again. The Lebanese more than the Israelis are being hurt by Hesbollah and yet they do nothing.

It makes no sense. On the other hand, when did it ever?

The Lazy Iguana said...

Both sides are wrong here.

On one side, there was an occupation that resulted in settlements moving in for the express purpose of displacing people already there. Now what were the displaced supposed to do? Be happy about the settlements?

Also, there was the mentality that it was OK to spray crouds with bullets because they were throwing rocks.

On the other side there are the suicide bombs and the rocket attacks.

But if you ask the suicide bomb people about it, they will claim that THEY are right because of all the stuff done to them by the other side (people killed, bombs dropped, land taken away, and so on)

Ask the side with US made smart bombs and other high tech military stuff and they say "self defence".

So who is right and who is wrong? Both sides are in their own way. It all depends on your point of view.

As for me, I think that terrorist tactics are never acceptible. I also think it is wrong to level an entire city just to get a few bad guys.

What is going on now is only going to make hard line islamic groups stronger. People that might otherwise not sign up will once their house is a pile of rubble, their place of employment is gone, their savings are wiped out, and their family killed.

green said...

All I know is that there is only one way there will ever be peace in Israel or the Middle East in general. And neither war or negotiation have anything whatever to do with it.

The reality is that no nation in the Middle East "likes" Israel. They just all have to deal with them.

I definitely agree with Christine's previous comment that it is tragic how innocent women and children are victimized here just because they are in the middle of the fighting.

I support Israel 100%.

Horace Jeffery Hodges said...

If Hezbollah is requesting a ceasefire, better check to see if they mean a "hudna," which is defined in Islamic terms as a temporary cessation of hostilities to give oneself time to rearm.

As for peace, the possibility is problematic since neither Hezbollah nor Hamas accepts even the 1967 borders. They both hold, as a basic position, that Israel has no right to exist at all.

This does not mean that peace is impossible, for Hezbollah and Hamas could lose popularity, leaving the negotiations to other parties, but at present, that doesn't seem to be happening.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Saur♥Kraut said...

Jeffery Hodges, as usual, you bring intelligent, insightful dialogue to the table. I agree you.

Remember also that lying is considered to be permissable in battle. Quranic commentator Ibn Kathir says "Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as conrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers." However, exempted from this rule were "those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show frienship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Green, thank you. As usual, we are in agreement.

Lazy Iguana, excellent summation and great points. I agree that it's horrible when civilians are involved.

Mal, the Lebanese are undoubtedly very scared of the Hezzes. Additionally, in the muslim tradition, if you die in a jihad, you get to go to heaven. So who really cares that much about temporal life on earth?

Daniel, thank you for taking the time to weigh in. You have always made it very clear that your sympathies lie with the Muslim world. I appreciate that you spoke your mind. I read your post about the topic and thought about it long and hard. Although the argument that the majority of the rest of the world is sympathetic to a ceasefire is a strong one, I still think that Israel is correct, even if they are supported only by a minority.

UWL, an excellent point.

Susie, ;o)

Senor Caiman, thank you so much. I wish for peace, like you, but not at any price. However, I really appreciate your weighing in with your opinion. This isn't an easy topic, by any means.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Horace: if Israel went back to the 1967 borders and removed the illegal settlements it would diffuse the entire issue, I have no doubt of that as no Arab nation could lobby for the removal of Israel from this position. It is the illegal actions of Israel that feeds the anti-Israel concepts.

It is the aggressive behaviour of the Zionists that leads to calls for the destruction of Israel, if they took a route to peace and the 67 borders the destruction of Israel would be an intenable postion.

Also, Hamas and Hezbollah are political parties that receive full democratic support of their people who voted them into power. We cannot ignore this.

Fred said...

I worry about this deal. If I have it right, the extremists are controlled from Syria, not Beirut. So, it remains to be seen if this will hold.

In the meantime, Hezbollah's tactics of locating themselves in civilian areas continues to show up in the press as a negative against Israel. Just this morning, the wires had a strou of many civilian casualties.

I'd like nothing more than to see the radicals wiped off the map. I hope this time it will happen. Soon.

BarbaraFromCalifornia said...

You and I are usually on the same wave lengths for posts, Saur. I have something about this today as well.

I do not ever see peace, but would love for there to be acceptance without violence for all.

Senor Caiman said...

Saur,

Your getting lazy with your posts. You need to work on your time management skills. I just don't like to see people fall into bad habits, this is just constructive criticism.

Have a great day.

Saur♥Kraut said...

Senor, ;o) I often let Sundays go, and thought the topic could stay up for another day anyway. And I kept it short and sweet because that's where it was at for me. But you're probably kidding, as you usually do. You know, it's funny. I sometimes think people respond better to the short posts because they don't put off reading them, as they might do if it's long.

Barbara, you're right!

Fred, I surely hope you're right.

Daniel, since you're addressing Horace I suppose there's not much to say. You know where I have decided to stand. *hugs*

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Fred: Syria do not back Hezbollah, that is fiction, remember Syria occupied Lebanon against the wishes of Hezbollah. Iran may or may not back them but there is no evidence at all of who Hezbollah's backers are.

Can I dispell another myth, Hezbollah do not hide themselves amongst civilians, this is utter fiction, an invention to make the genocide of Arab peoples under the Zionists acceptable. You cannot justify the massacre of innocents by the IDF as Hezbollah are hiding there, Hezbollah were no where near the UN why they got bombed.

Horace Jeffery Hodges said...

Daniel, you're at least partly mistaken.

Hezbollah did support Syria, as indicated by its pro-Syrian demonstration.

And Iran is a backer, as Hezbollah spokesman Hussein Nabulsi acknowledges:"It's no secret that Hezbollah receives financial help from Iran."

And as for Hezbollah hiding itself among civilians, the New York Times reports them as having done precisely that:

"Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets," said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. "They are shooting from between our houses."

Whatever our views on this current, dangerous crisis, we need to make sure that we have all of the facts.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Horace: its not as simple as that regarding Hezbollah, Lebanon and the involvement of Syria, certainly Syria and Iran (and many other Arab nations) morally support Hezbollah but financial and weapon support is harder to prove, in fact there is no evidence. I can counter the statement by Hussein Nabulsi with statements that contradict is, as I said no hard evidence. Also, remember that the realtionship with Syria and Lebanon is very complicated, in a sense they were an occuaption force.

As for your flimsy evidence of Hezbollah 'hiding' amongst civilians, this is once again a complicated issue but in a nutshell:

1. Israel have no respect for civilians and their lives, thus there is no point to Hezbollah 'hiding' amongst civilans, the only point would be to protect units; as Israel targets children and innocents this would be a flawed tactic.
2. The whole of South Lebanon is war zone, therefore there is a fine line between hiding amongst civilans and carrying out war with civilians happening to be there, as Israel has no respect for civilians deaths; civilian areas become war zones.

I've got the facts my good man and I'm not interested in justifying Zionist acts of terror.

Horace Jeffery Hodges said...

Daniel, I prefer "Jeffery" to "Horace." That's why I sign off as "Jeffery Hodges."

Anyway, I meant my post as a respectful one, yet you seem to have taken offense -- unless your reference to "my good man" is meant in earnest, but it sounds dismissive.

Also, I don't know why you consider the firsthand reports that I cited to be flimsy, for you don't explain your reason.

Here's another firsthand report, albeit in German, a letter to Der Tagesspiegel from a Shi'ite who lived in southern Lebanon:

-----------------------------------
Ich wohnte bis 2002 in einem kleinen Dorf im Süden nahe Mardschajun, das mehrheitlich von Schiiten wie mir bewohnt ist. Nach Israels Verlassen des Libanon dauerte es nicht lange, bis die Hisbollah bei uns und in allen anderen Ortschaften das Sagen hatte. Als erfolgreiche Widerstandskämpfer begrüßt, erschienen sie waffenstarrend und legten auch bei uns Raketenlager in Bunkern an. Die Sozialarbeit der Partei Gottes bestand darin, auf diesen Bunkern eine Schule und ein Wohnhaus zu bauen! Ein lokaler Scheich erklärte mir lachend, dass die Juden in jedem Fall verlieren, entweder weil die Raketen auf sie geschossen werden oder weil sie, wenn sie die Lager angriffen, von der Weltöffentlichkeit verurteilt werden ob der dann zivilen Toten. Die libanesische Bevölkerung interessiert diese Leute überhaupt nicht, sie benutzen sie als Schilder und wenn tot als Propaganda. Solange sie dort existieren, wird es keine Ruhe und Frieden geben.

Dr. Mounir Herzallah,

Berlin-Wedding
-----------------------------------

Here's my rough translation:

I lived until 2002 in a small village just to the south of Mardschajun, where a majority of Shi'ites like me lived. After Israel withdrew from Lebanon, not much time passed until Hezbollah had its say among us and in all other areas. Greeted as successful resistance fighters, they appeared with weapons and set up a rocket cache in a bunker near us. The social work of this Party of God consisted in building a school and apartment building on top of this bunker! A local sheik, laughing, declared to me that the Jews in any case would lose, either because the rockets would be shot at them or because they -- if they attacked the munitions depot -- would be condemned by world opinion due to the dead civilians. These people [i.e., Hezbollah] are not interested in the Lebanese population at all, for they use them as human shields, then as propaganda if they die. So long as they [i.e., Hezbollah] exist, there will be no peace and freedom.

Dr. Mounir Herzallah,

Berlin-Wedding
-----------------------------------

I don't consider this evidence to be flimsy, but if you do, I'd like to know why.

Respectfully,

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Horace Jeffery Hodges: my good man was not meant as a dig, it meant as my good man.

Many sources (Red Cross, the communities themselves, UN observers) make it very clear that Hezbollah do not hide amongst civilians; for the main reason that as a military tactic it serves no purpose as (I'm not shouting but this needs to be in big letters) ISRAEL DO NOT CARE IF THEY KILL CIVILIANS, HENCE WHY 750 OF THEM ARE DEAD.

This alone dispells the myth of Hezbollah and human shields...

Horace Jeffery Hodges said...

Daniel, thanks for the "good man" explanation.

On Israel and Hezbollah, I guess that we are looking at different reports, and I do see Hezbollah using human shields.

But we'll just have to disagree here.

Jeffery Hodges

* * *

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Indeed we will, I see 55 Israelis dead and 750 Lebanese.

That doesn't add up.

exMI said...

Israel may not care about civilaina deaths, but it is very clear the Hezbollah doesn't care either.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Exmi: that doesn't make it right though does it? And Israel is doing a far better job odf targeting and killing civilans than Hezbollah is.

What is it with all the Zionist war crime appeasers...